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Tournament Victory Stars Formula Tweaks

Official patch and hotfix notes published for Dungeon Keeper

Re: Tournament Victory Stars Formula Tweaks

Postby Keithustus » Wed Jan 20, 2016 2:32 am

rivas wrote:Get rid of ALL mumbo jumbo formula

Asign a fixed number of stars for each OPONENT'S DCR POINT...103 different values, ignore everything else.

The higher the DCR ANYONE destroys the more stars earned (Somehow EXPONENTIALLY) Because a 100 DCR is a lot more difficult and expensive than 4 times 25DCR.

Just as soon as you explain how that prevents babies from outscoring DCR101s.
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Re: Tournament Victory Stars Formula Tweaks

Postby lsfichi » Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:12 am

Keithustus wrote:
rivas wrote:Get rid of ALL mumbo jumbo formula

Asign a fixed number of stars for each OPONENT'S DCR POINT...103 different values, ignore everything else.

The higher the DCR ANYONE destroys the more stars earned (Somehow EXPONENTIALLY) Because a 100 DCR is a lot more difficult and expensive than 4 times 25DCR.

Just as soon as you explain how that prevents babies from outscoring DCR101s.


I think Emily here might have something. but over all what is needed to consider is average stars per hour plus some extra for the mana spent. with the previous low opponent league bonus the 101 could have made at full speed(not exactly cheap) 150% what a baby could. now that was reduced to 130%. So the star costs for a baby is roughly 3 gems for 300 stars. a big 101 would spend between 10 and 30. Let's think about the formula Emily proposed. what's the range of the pairing system? And as a general idea when changes are made to the star formula you should increase the number of stars for everyone. apply the correction but don't take stars away. people feel robbed. devaluation is the key.
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Re: Tournament Victory Stars Formula Tweaks

Postby markuscookius » Wed Jan 20, 2016 4:06 am

DKDev_Chris wrote:
markuscookius wrote:
DKDev_Chris wrote:We're modifying a few of the DCR bonuses. I've updated the original post.



Uh oh. What are the reasons for the alteration Chris?
Most keepers believe the change went well.

Looks like my baby won't be going into retirement just yet ;)


;)

Yeah we just had QA play around with this and we didn't get the results we wanted. We've reverted that change and are now increasing the Opponent League level bonuses. (Original post updated again.)


Thank for changing it back Chris.
We'll see how it goes in the next tournament :)
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Re: Tournament Victory Stars Formula Tweaks

Postby rodem » Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:18 am

rivas wrote:
LOOSE ON PURPOSE IS AN ABERRATION only seen in DK




+1000

This situation need to be corrected soon as possible. The game to came back to a normal situation must direct players to win every attack and to dungeons evolution and not like any previous update, to find a comfortable trophyes and DCR position to have an easy "one immortal 4x speed" win...
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Re: Tournament Victory Stars Formula Tweaks

Postby rivas » Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:44 am

Keithustus wrote:
rivas wrote:Get rid of ALL mumbo jumbo formula

Asign a fixed number of stars for each OPONENT'S DCR POINT...103 different values, ignore everything else.

The higher the DCR ANYONE destroys the more stars earned (Somehow EXPONENTIALLY) Because a 100 DCR is a lot more difficult and expensive than 4 times 25DCR.

Just as soon as you explain how that prevents babies from outscoring DCR101s.


Because i said 3 times in that post the stars earned for defeating a 101 would be exponencially larger than those defeating a 20 dcr for setting an example

And a baby would not be able to outscore at (imagine) 10x bigger reward.. I am surprised i have to explain this out.

I dont know how many stars should be rewarded i did not test.. But imagine something like this

Defeating a 20 DCR (1month old Dung) = 5 *
Defeating a 50 DCR = 40*
Defearing a 80DCR = 400*
100 DCR = 1000 *

So? Who will sandbag? This star rewards are wrong made up by me now as an example. to get the correct ones DEVELOPERS should go into the game, and raid for 1 hour. several different DCR dungeons (without mana gems).

Then they should write down how many raids could they do to a 101 DCR. In 1 hour.
How many raids could they do to a 50 DCR in one hour?
How many raids could they do to a 21 DCR. In one hour?
Etc.

Then they can assign each target DCR a perfect number of stars Based on the number of dungeons with that DCR they could beat in 1 hour without mana.

Example: If you can raid 6 times in one hour a 50 DCR, and only can raid1 time a 100 dcr in another hour(no mana refill).. Then defeating a 100 dcr should give you 6 times more stars than a 50 DCR.

***This would make the very high frequency raiding of anyone be as profitable as the very low frecuency raiding of a dread3 101. All of it with advantages for everyone.

1 this will make noobs and babies competitive, (they would have to raid very fast for a full hour every minute)
2 will make dread 3 do 1 raid and put away the phone while mana recharges while (or spend mana gems and achieve huge numbers of stars, having huge advantage over babies) 101 kill should give same stars as a baby raiding 60 minutes
3 everyone in the game would have equal power to earn stars noobs and dreads alike, with the difference than players using mana refills would obliterate the scores earned by keepers who do not.


***Real example: a baby destroys around 30 dungeons 21DCR. In 1 hour and gets 4000 stars... In the same hour same player can only defeat 2 dungeons 100 DCR because of mana bottleneck. Then the highest lvl kill should be rewarded by 2000 stars. While the lowest kill only 80.
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Re: Tournament Victory Stars Formula Tweaks

Postby Keithustus » Wed Jan 20, 2016 4:12 pm

rivas wrote:Because i said 3 times in that post the stars earned for defeating a 101 would be exponencially larger than those defeating a 20 dcr for setting an example

...imagine something like this

Defeating a 20 DCR (1month old Dung) = 5 *
Defeating a 50 DCR = 40*
Defearing a 80DCR = 400*
100 DCR = 1000 *

....
***Real example: a baby destroys around 30 dungeons 21DCR. In 1 hour and gets 4000 stars....

Please explain how the baby with DCR 30 at Dread 3 that repeatedly beats DCR80s isn't outscored by the DCR101 that slowly beats DCR91+s.

Also you lost me at mentioning gems. The calculations need to make sense without any gem usage as well since me and many others don't use them to refill armies, mana, or immortals. (Clearly a gem user will usually outscore a non-gem user. I'm not asking for the star bonuses to overturn that.)
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Re: Tournament Victory Stars Formula Tweaks

Postby rivas » Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:16 pm

A baby dread 3 would require the same mana same troops and same spell lvls in order to beat a dcr80. 4x will not help one or the other, borh would spend same time in the raid and have same trouble, In this case the player spending more gems crushing several dcr80 would earn more stars than the other... The baby will need high lvl spells tho, requiring several months of gameplay, and will not benefit from not developing the dungeon in any way which is each owns choice.

Besides this escenario may not be possible , due to how the matchmaking works, in order for a DCR 30 to be matched against a 80, the baby would probably need the double of trophies to compensate the big difference between their DCR 30 VS 80. I had a guildmate with a DCR 40 thay quickly reached the trophy leaderboard with more than 6000 tp he was repeteadly hammered by high DCR dungeons but matched against medium DCR dungs. And he always lost miserably those revenges because his troops and spells were low lol.. This 'baby' had traps and all but he would probably need a good 9 months training immortals spells and all to be able to beat a 100 DCR

Even if it possible the time invested per development of spells, time spent per raid, mana spent gems spent will be the same as a non baby attacker, so if he can beat it he deserves those stars

And calculations should be made without mana, becase at lower DCR no mana is needed and at higher DCR mana is alwsys needed and the numbers of stars asigned to each defender DCR wouldnt be correct if it is done any other way

Besides, current mumbo jumbo formula encourages players to find a sweet spot of star earning, while as DCR only formula as i presented would make everyone stay in their own confortable zone, with tiny difference.

Example: Because everyone would earn the same number of stars relative to target DCR, a noob raiding 30 low dungs per hour would gain as many stars as other player that just beats 2 100 drc dungs in one hour.. But if the player refills would be able to raid 2 more 100 dcr dungs, in 10 minutes of raids would have double stars than the noob, and noob would require a full hour of raids to match him. And this would somehow encourage of dungeon development and climb in trophies.. However i think many players would develop and stick to their confortable zone use mana and gems to raid more and never try to beat 101, which after all is tough and risky of loosing the immortal for 3 hours or pay. And those who try certainly deserve to rule the rankings
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Re: Tournament Victory Stars Formula Tweaks

Postby rivas » Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:56 pm

Forthe helth of the game i believe any incoming new player has the right to raid for a full hour many dungeons and earn same stars that would earn and old player beating 2 101 DCR dungeons in the same hour (mana bottleneck) now if old player decides to refill would have the strenght of obliterating the new player's score with refills in 10 minutes.

Anyway i am done talking, i dont think EA board of deciders have any knowledge about frequency of raiding vs mana bottleneck or the will to raid for 1 hour each DCR from 10 to 100 to measure the time needed for each DCR and asign the right number of stars..It is easier the mumbo jumbo
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Re: Tournament Victory Stars Formula Tweaks

Postby lsfichi » Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:08 pm

Emily as almost always is right. to me seems the perfect solution. but we should try to take apart the idea,try to find if it has holes in it. one but,I wouldn't give so many stars to 101 or 90 for that matter. maybe just give babies 10x less of what a gem powered dread can do in one hour. would be nice if some of the devs. would participate in this discussions.
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Re: Tournament Victory Stars Formula Tweaks

Postby Keithustus » Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:20 am

alright, rivas, you got me. The biggest problem with the scoring, setting aside the obvious matchmaking problems, is that the enemy-DCR points just aren't calibrated and scaled correctly. Something like this would work better than what we've got now:

DCR.....bonus stars
10...+0
20...+1
30...+3
40...+9
50...+27
60...+81
70...+243
80...+729
90...+2,187
100...+6,561
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