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Sir Cophagus feedback

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Sir Cophagus feedback

Postby pitofdespair » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:03 pm

Having had Sir C for a while, and with many players acquiring him now, wanted to relay some comments. Unfortunately, I have to conclude that he is breaking the game. Even against my 272 DCR dungeon where I’ve made substantial modifications to combat him, people routinely take me for two stars with 250 mana. No one who has attacked me with him has failed - not the case with any other immortal. Worse, several players in my guild are discussing quitting because they have been getting completely rolled by him multiple times a day in the last week, with no hope of defense. That includes players down to 50 DCR who have been attacked up to theee times a day by a single player. (Don’t need to get into matching issues right now.)

Why is he overpowered and what would fix him? Here’s some extended thoughts:

-At a range of 6, it’s not practical to lay spikes & other traps in sufficient quantities to deter all possible angles of attack from him. Even if you concentrate all traps at that distance and let every other immortal roll you, it just takes one disable traps spell to open a hole for him. The extra range is a welcome change to strategy, but it’s excessive.
Solution: reduce range to 5 at most, which puts him (barely) within range of at least some traps and a couple more buildings

-The beam hitting everything on its path is surprisingly effective against traps, and his targeting of minions over traps/buildings shields him against his only potential vulnerability. The beam is a great differentiator for him - it’s just also a sledgehammer in a china shop.
Solution: Have cophagus only target buildings, even if he is attacked, and have his beam not damage traps. Force players to manually target him against buildings to hit minions in that path, or use other means to defend him. This makes him dumb (i.e. in character) and gives him two real weaknesses, requiring possibly both disables and cluck offs, and/or the use of other minions to clear a path, so he can’t just raid solo. It makes him the defenseless quarterback on the team, instead of the whole team rolled into one.

-The damage from spikes becomes minor at higher levels, partly because there’s way too many spike traps that you’d have to upgrade - would take a couple of years of just upgrading spike traps to get them to max level, and even then they would put a tiny dent in him because his vulnerability fades as he levels up.
Solution: Dramatically increase the damage from spikes or do not reduce it as he levels up; and cut his health in half to balance against his multiple targeting strength. Make him vulnerable so he requires more care to play, especially if dropping him early as a solo attack.

Those three combined *might* make him balanced. Probably still the best immortal, but he’d at least die sometimes when people aren’t careful, and it would take some mana to play him.

Anyways, in summary, cophagus is taking all the challenge away and driving people from the game. For people that want to break records and raid on 4x, he’s a gift of the sort that Tiny used to be, and I’m sure they’ll disagree with this loudly. I understand... I personally benefit from him much more than he costs me. I’m not at all opposed to him being incrementally more powerful than the other immortals. I just don’t want him to single-handedly kill the game in a month or two. I’m not kidding when I say multiple people in my guild are discussing quitting because of him, and that’s while we’re just at the leading edge of a big wave of heavy higher level players acquiring him. Love the variety he provides, but it needs to be balanced somehow.

Side note: There are some fairly minor AI issues with his targeting. He sometimes targets doors entering the heart when he can attack the heart directly, misjudging the pathing. Also he sometimes seems to attack traps beside the heart instead of the heart, and sometimes just misses the heart no matter how often you retarget. It usually occurs when along the left side of the heart - I can try to repro a case - I suspect it occurs when he is at specific locations. These issues are relatively rare but can be frustrating at times, leading to occasional losses.
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Re: Sir Cophagus feedback

Postby JPN Keepers » Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:02 am

+1 full of good ideas. But should wait for a few more months.
Some players spent huge amount of gems on Sir Cophagus. It would be unfair for them to weaken it now.
Also, there could be a way to kill it. :D
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Re: Sir Cophagus feedback

Postby DK2Hell » Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:54 am

+1
but the range is 5 :mrgreen:
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Re: Sir Cophagus feedback

Postby Casa » Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:06 pm

Something as simple as only allowing him to attack NSEW and not on a diagonal would level things out some. I've had him take out two defense rooms and my heart by shooting a diagonal ray across the corners of rooms without ever taking a hit. We can't build rooms with corners touching, and the map is only so big so there will always be multiple spots where those angles exist. Maybe reduce the target size of the heart? Only the center 4 squares may be hit to damage the heart. Maybe something similar for graveyard as well...?
Even if he is weakened, a single diable trap spell allows him to destroy a heart and 2+ other rooms if he can shoot 5-6 blocks on the diagonal.
I mean, if he's shooting his ray in a NNE,NÉE, SSW etc direction, it almost spans half of the dungeon and high end keepers have already found how to exploit that and are very actively learning how to identify those spots of opportunity.
Maybe there should be a restriction on how many things his ray can travel through? I.e. 3 would mean up to three rooms, walls, traps, doors etc. once one is destroyed, his ray would extend beyond the existing two. A bombwall could be used by the attacker to clear the walls out of the ray and extend his range. Maybe the range of things he can shoot through grows some with levels. Idk if that makes sense or not.
I also believe it should seriously be considered that matchmaking for owners of SirC be restricted to lvl two hundred and up when SirC is the active immortal with revenge being the exception.
Regardless, decreased range or bigger maps needs to happen. I know some spent a lot of gems to get him and lvl him up, but that won't matter if no one else is playing. Especially with the number of SirC owners I have seen dropping their trophies to near zero. Do we really think new players will stick around if they are getting three starred by SirC every day and several times during tournaments. I've played for six plus years and if the game was like it is today when I started, I would have quit a long time ago.

Just some other ideas to add to Pits.
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Re: Sir Cophagus feedback

Postby Hell bound heart » Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:50 pm

Sir c is over powered with to big of a range. Will drive more players away from the game than any baby dung or sandbagger will do. People who use him should be blocked from attacking anyone under Dcr 200. But as ea can't programme anything correctly the low lvl players have no chance of competing or chance of revenge.
Trolls still hitting nothing when you cast a bomb wall spell...........
Hopefully they will nerf sir c the same way tiny was.
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Re: Sir Cophagus feedback

Postby LegendaryOnesCom » Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:30 pm

The first time I saw him I knew it is overpowered immortal that add grinding ability to high level players.
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Re: Sir Cophagus feedback

Postby muumipeikko » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:26 pm

This thread does come across a little like the big boys not liking to get a taste of their own medicine. I'm sure I'm not the only part timer who has largly been turned off by the game by virtue of the fact It's almost impossible to progress past DCR120 without constantly staying logged is as the second you disconnect th "big guys" decided to bring his fully trained minion's from his >DCr250 to attack mine and take what it would take me 3 raids to accumulate.

I actually say make him stronger as it's clear in the top echelons of DK, our leaders are on the whole far to scared to take on someone their own size, preferring to attack weaker dungeons at most half their DCR which pose no challenge. Maybe Sir Cophagus will be the thing which actually levels the game out and allows the top couple of hundred to fight someone their own size?
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Re: Sir Cophagus feedback

Postby JPN Keepers » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:31 pm

muumipeikko wrote:This thread does come across a little like the big boys not liking to get a taste of their own medicine. I'm sure I'm not the only part timer who has largly been turned off by the game by virtue of the fact It's almost impossible to progress past DCR120 without constantly staying logged is as the second you disconnect th "big guys" decided to bring his fully trained minion's from his >DCr250 to attack mine and take what it would take me 3 raids to accumulate.

I actually say make him stronger as it's clear in the top echelons of DK, our leaders are on the whole far to scared to take on someone their own size, preferring to attack weaker dungeons at most half their DCR which pose no challenge. Maybe Sir Cophagus will be the thing which actually levels the game out and allows the top couple of hundred to fight someone their own size?


Interesting thought.
You are right. Some players who have skipped me for a long time started to raid me again with Sir C.

But I am not sure if they keep coming back or not.
It would be more efficient for them to raid easier dungeons without mana spend.
I will buy Sir C soon and try it by myself.
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Re: Sir Cophagus feedback

Postby pitofdespair » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:11 pm

muumipeikko wrote:This thread does come across a little like the big boys not liking to get a taste of their own medicine. I'm sure I'm not the only part timer who has largly been turned off by the game by virtue of the fact It's almost impossible to progress past DCR120 without constantly staying logged is as the second you disconnect th "big guys" decided to bring his fully trained minion's from his >DCr250 to attack mine and take what it would take me 3 raids to accumulate.

I actually say make him stronger as it's clear in the top echelons of DK, our leaders are on the whole far to scared to take on someone their own size, preferring to attack weaker dungeons at most half their DCR which pose no challenge. Maybe Sir Cophagus will be the thing which actually levels the game out and allows the top couple of hundred to fight someone their own size?


Please make your own gripe thread. If you read the original post you’ll see that I was posting on behalf of lower level players that cannot defend themselves. Personal attacks against the people in this thread are completely out of place on this issue. Everyone here has argued for better balance for low lv ppl, including that matchmaking should be fixed, bonus stars changed, the catch-up mechanism improved, and resource theft modified, amongst many other things, all to our own disadvantage. Beyond that, as a rule I try not to attack anyone below 2/3 of my level, almost always attack people above my level, and try not to attack the same person two or three times in a week. (End of really competitive tournaments excepted because it’s impossible to compete.) If there were more people to attack above me, I would sick entirely to them - they give better rewards - but unfortunately for me it takes 100 or 200 raids to find a single one. Also, I wouldn’t try to argue that low-mid players are so innocent - I get hit up to 10 times a day by low/mid who attack my resource rooms to loot and quit. Not complaining about it - I recommend it often as a strategy to deal with the imbalances mentioned above.

None of this changes the fact that Cophagus is breaking the game. Four times I logged out on Saturday and four times I was hit by Cophagus for a zero mana 2-star win, giving the attacker ~2000 bonus stars, for a few gem resupply. (This is after three high lv players known for having among the best defenses approached me hoping that my defense might be the best against Cophagus.) For serious attacks, every immortal against me has a 50% success rate or lower, usually for more than 700 mana - except with Cophagus, where everyone, including people well below my level, has a perfect 100% success rate, usually with less than 200 mana. I can handle it, even if it’s 15 mil stone out of my pocket per day... I play enough to compensate. However I will say that it is making the game boring. I’ve resisted leveling up Cophagus because it’s boring to play, and now it’s boring to try to defend against. I could spend a year (literally) getting my spikes to level 20, so that they’d have to use one Disable Traps spell to win instead. (Lv 10 spikes aren’t enough to kill him if he sits on one for the entire time to kill the heart, I’ve found out.)

My predictions: Cophagus will drive away away low/mid level players in increasing numbers as the big wave of DCR 250 people crashes. Higher lv players will tough it out to get Cophagus themselves. Soon a single player will score a million stars in a tournament using the Cophagus ‘I Win’ button and constant resupply, with winnings from previous tournaments. Many people with Cophagus will find it’s better to fight solo in tourneys, taking even more of the medals available, and use their winnings to continue dominating the following weeks (like what happened a few months after tourneys were first introduced under the old payout system with Tiny-bys). Non-Cophagus players, at all levels, in our out of guilds, will stop playing tournaments as scores of even 10000 or 20000 will become insignificant and they find it’s better to cave-in the weekend and play only weekdays. I have more but that’s enough I think.
Bruce Campbells Army of Darkness - an open lv 40 guild for casual players of all levels who want to develop their dungeons and get Dreadstone in tournaments
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Re: Sir Cophagus feedback

Postby JPN Keepers » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:18 am

It is difficult to defeat Sir C but not impossible.

1. Abyssal Beam
- Range to lock the target: 4 for center and 3 for the corner of the room.
- Range of the beam: the beam reaches as far as 10 away.
- Damages to: rooms, traps, doors, all minions and immos including ghost and Tiny.

2. Weakness
- Its long range beam is strength but also weakness. It stays one location for a long time.
Canon and rock may be able to reach it.
Also the beam attracts defense minions in far location.
- People say spike is the weakness. I agree but not very effective to Sir C.
Lvl10 spike needs 8sec to take out lvl11 Sir C. Lvl17 needs 5sec. Enough time to disable it.

3. Strategy
- Train defense minions.
- Upgrade canons and rocks. Poisons are effective too.
- Bury traps in wall. It may survive the first wave.
- Set spikes wherever it stops. For example, Sir C stops at 6 away from door.
- Pack rooms in center to keep a distance from gates and hallways.

With the above strategy, my dungeon wins 30-40% of Sir Cs and most of them use full mana.
My anti-Sir C strategy works a little so far. It is still far from completion.
Please share your strategy.
Last edited by JPN Keepers on Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
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