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Stand up & take a bow

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Stand up & take a bow

Postby Da Grud » Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:36 pm

Ok, for those of you not in Horny's Chosen tournament you might not be aware of what is going on. There is a new guild out there that is currently holding the silver medal spot with only 13 members...

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Now when I say "New Guild" I mean it. This guild is only a level 1 guild and it's private so no one can join.

Now at it's current score that means that everyone in this guild has currently earned an average of over 300 stars. Certainly possible to do. I myself have over 300 stars already. As do three members of the current winning guild, Italy.

I don't find the numbers unbelievable, what I do find suspicious however, is that this guild came out of nowhere & was able to recruit over 10 SUPER star earners. The fact that they aren't accepting new members also strikes me as odd because there is normally a great deal of swapping & merging of keepers by the top guilds in tournaments.

There are a couple of scenarios I suspect as possible, but one scenario defiantly seems to be the more likely of the two:



First Scenario


It's Spcbrass or another top keeper behind it. In case you were unaware, spc qualified and competed in the last tournament with a guild of only ONE.

Source: Which were the 5 that qualified for Horney's Chosen #4?
spcbrass wrote:It what could be the biggest underdog story in the history of D.K.

Enter the lone wolf!

Chances are this lone wolf is going be eaten alive by the sheep, but we'll see what happens!


In the end spc had around 700 stars I believe and he explained his goal for doing this as so...

Source: The awkward moment when...
spcbrass wrote:Now I entered this tournament as a single to drive some things home. I could have easily won HC chosen tournament with a small group of dedicated people, but rather than take advantage of the tournament for its gems I chose instead to walk a path that would expose it for all of it's flaws. The kind of matchmaking that you see above is an enormous flaw, probably the single biggest reason why this tournament can be gamed right down to it's knees. Because enough keepers have exposed this flaw and are taking advantage of it the tournament is simply a war of attrition. Those teams that can endure the most raiding and sandbagging win. It's a very long and grinding process, one that should certainly come with some kind of an award for all of tedious mind numbing efforts associated with winning.

Anyhow, I'm at full disclosure over here. Just let me get my 700 stars and we'll talk later! :twisted:


Spc used the tactic that most top guilds are using by creating a baby dungeon, finding the sweet spot where it got easy 3 star wins and just intentionally losing against harder dungeons to keep his trophy score in the "sweet spot." Nothing at all wrong with this tactic!!! This is a tactic that ANYONE can do and therefore it is NOT cheating.

It is possible that spc got 12 of his friends together, they created 13 new baby dungeons, formed the "Disposable Heros" guild and they are just really doing awesome in this tournament as a team...

I will point out however tho, that this is the tactic that many in both mine and the Italy guild use. It is a very hard and time consuming to earn over 300 stars in under a day using this tactic. Out of the 100+ members in my guild and the Italy guild, there are currently only 5 keepers who have earned over 300. Therefore, how likely is it that spc (or another) was able to put together a team of only 13 that have all done just that?

No, something just doesn't fit with this scenario.



Senerio #2


I find this the more likely scenario... Someone created multiple accounts using emulators which allows them to run macro bots to automate sandbagging these dungeons down to zero trophies in between them attacking with them. You can very quickly earn over 100 trophies on a dungeon that has been sandbagged to zero in less than an hour however you will very quickly rise in your trophy score and eventually need to sandbag again. It takes hours to get back to zero, but if the process were automated than you could earn hearts with another one of your dungeons while that process occurred.

Now the obvious person to point the finger at here is ronjambo, but I'm not going to do that as he might just be guilty of having given the idea and knowledge needed to do this to another. Let me explain:

During the first tournament, ronjambo came on to the scene by basically announcing he had cheated to win his bracket in the tournament. The content of his original post has been removed now, but basically he told how he had created 23 new dungeons using an emulator & than earned about 400-500 stars on each before tossing them aside. This gave him enough stars to win first place in his bracket.

Spc actually commented in that very thread about the possibility of what I think is part of what's happening today...

Source: How many dungeons can you have?
spcbrass wrote:Combine 23 accounts with running an emulator with multiple window open on multiple devices and you could farm stars at a blistering pace without the pesky delay of having to switch back and forth between accounts. Literally playing multiple accounts simultaneously. Good thing I am just a moderator or I would probably bring this up at the next meeting!


Ronjambo also created a thread/guide for all explaining how anyone could run this app on an emulator. I won't link you to it however, as I don't wish to help others cheat.


Now let's speed ahead to the fourth tournament... Again ronjambo decided to create a thread telling us how he cheated again. This time he used a macro program to automate the sandbagging of his dungeon...

Source: Fixing your matchmaking...a mini guide for the falling.
ronjambo wrote:After testing this, with an automated macro bot on a spam account (would not run that on my main it would ruin the game for me)..
I found it takes an automated 3rd party app around 4 to 6 hours to dump 1000 trophy points
I can not imagine anybody ever wanting to sit through that manually it would take an insane amount of time.
These findings lead me to believe that most of the dungeons in the top guilds must be using automated macro bots
because - I am a jobless bum and even I do not have 6 hours per day- to sit dumping trophy points in order to win a tournament.


So you can see, ronjambo again posted for all to see just how they could cheat in this game. Therefore it's not that big a stretch to believe someone out there, using ronjambo's example has created multiple accounts using an emulator & has also set up macro bots to sandbag the trophies on the accounts in between his/her attacking with them.

I want to repeat, I AM NOT ACCUSING RONJAMBO OF BEING THE ONE DOING THIS... I only bring him up now, because I needed to demonstrate how all this info is readily available to all in the forums here. I personally think that it is probably 2 people perpetrating this cheat at the moment, but I'll keep my suspicions as to who all to myself.

If I am right about this scenario than this is indeed NOT OK. Unlike the first scenario, which is a method that anyone and EVERYONE can do, this scenario is not something everyone can do. This is cheating plain and simple.

I as well as others have submitted in game reports to ask for the dev team to examine this guild & I hope they are able to handle this situation if this is indeed what is happening.



In Conclusion


I am the LAST person to ever want to accuse another of cheating wrongfully. I have been accused wrongfully myself more times than I can count. That's why I am NOT naming names here or accusing anyone in particular. Instead I'm seeking answers...

If scenario one is what has happened here than please stand up & take a bow. You have earned my respect. It is quite impressive what you have pulled off & by all means let us know what 13 keepers out there are worthy of our praise.

However, if scenario 2 is what is happening here than ROT IN HELL. What you are doing is ruining the game & I hope the team at EA is able to catch you & ban you from this game forever.
Last edited by Da Grud on Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:11 pm, edited 12 times in total.
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Re: Stand up & take a bow

Postby Devon_Bunny » Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:44 pm

sigh. tournaments should be shut down for good. every tournament is a new exploit, abuse, or flame storm.
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Re: Stand up & take a bow

Postby Nodnarb » Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:49 pm

Hell's babies won our tourny bracket with 12 members with around 5000 stars I think at that time. Most of us were going much slower than SPC in his example. It is perfectly plausibly & makes sense. Look at the top guilds. By end of the tourny, how many players even end up with 200 stars? I suspect that the took the serious keepers from a midlevel & made an alpha strike team.
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Re: Stand up & take a bow

Postby Da Grud » Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:00 pm

I am looking at the top guilds as my example, Nod... Out of over 100 players in Downtown Dungeons and the Italy guild only 5 currently have the minimum needed for ALL 13 to have earned in the Disposable Heroes guild. Not impossable, but it is improbable.
Last edited by Da Grud on Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stand up & take a bow

Postby spcbrass » Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:29 pm

I can confirm that this is not an SPC venture! I had thought about doing it because I do have the power to organize a group of dedicated folks and there was more than enough time to plan and train everyone to execute the strategy to perfection between the last tournament and this one. Instead of using my powers for evil I passed along the knowledge to the remaining pieces of Mythic in hopes that they would use the information to close these tournament loopholes once and for all.

Currently I am fighting with my original guild, Fluffy Bunnies, using my original dungeon. I had even thought about bringing my baby dungeon over to the guild to earn a pile of stars so that we could easily place top 3, but decided that in the best interest of the established and high level dungeons that are there that it would not be fair to snag up a big pile of gems for a dungeon that is designed to never use them.

Anyhow I wanted to eliminate the SPC theory from the equation.
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Re: Stand up & take a bow

Postby Kaihawaii » Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:53 pm

in dubio pro reo. I don't like calling names and saying you don't call them, just to force them to come out of the woods.

There are so many talented people playing this game and guilds that went a bit quieter. There was maybe some excellent lobbying and networking going on without notice of this forum, that has only a FRACTION of top 500 players registered.

We've got alone in our 1st guild 8+ it pros or sr. it leads. Talent, using tech innovation or skills or physical finger speed isn't a big difference. In worst case a little terms & conditions shake-up of a vulnerable and broken system. Many known, seen and used strategies are not fair-play/sportmanship. I agree on that one. But gaming is always innovation as playing a game.

If the system is pushed to the limits, devs might react in proper way. We might witness just an early piece, a proof of concept what a powerful group of 200-300 real keeper could achieve. Other "stuff" is - disposable 8-)

(To be clear, all of German Empire except one babyish dungeon are our regular/"high dcr" accounts. So no tech doping in this guild. GE, GE 1, GE 10 are still casual playing.)
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Re: Stand up & take a bow

Postby dave » Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:55 pm

Da Grud wrote:blaa blaa blaa ->

EDIT: Removed the quote to enhance readability as requested :)

Dear Da Grud, you are a clever little soldier... (for that I give you your dues)
Sadly though you are not even close to being- as clever as you think you are.
Will you please learn how to correctly use the words: multiple; multiply; and multitude? I hope you do!
As a side note, you are also quite popular...
But again you are not as popular as you think you are.
Your friends and co-players may defend you to the death and make you feel glorious or even almighty,
but there are many other guilds full of players who avoid this forum because they simply do not want to put up with this sort of rubbish from you and/or your friends.
This is not a personal attack at you, I'm just trying to give you a little friendly advice/truth. Sorry if it hurts.

You really must learn to let go of the "Flame of feud" which you hold against all who even seem to cross you just a tiny bit, before you go too far.
But until you do it is clear that you need someone like ronjambo to point all your frustration and inner turmoil at.
If there was no ronjambo then who would you scratch your abrasive side up against next? It is ok, we all know that you secretly envy and love him.

I am sure that what you would love right now, more than anything, is for ronjambo to come along on some random new account with a simple name like dave and say something like this... "yea grud, it is my guild. Actually though none of them are running on an emulator. I just bought 5 I-pads from my friend down the road, some of them needed repairs so I opened them up and got busy with the soldiering iron and ITS ALIVE haha. They were all jail-broken at some point and so I installed dungeon keeper onto them and got them running with a touch macro app - automated bots for the win! yea woohooo!"

But sadly for you, old gruddy boy, No!

Also in the post you refer to by ronjambo, no statement was given regarding an emulator. It was said about 3 posts down the topic something like... "ok I confess I won the tournament using 23 accounts" but nothing was mentioned about an emulator at this point. You can create multiple accounts on any device, because of this the emulator topic was and is unrelated to the use of multiple accounts. Don't try to merge the two!

Nor is it likely that someone like ronjambo, (who has an obvious love for electronic arts) would use an emulator for his own accounts or even use that crap PC he has got. (with just a duel core processor and 4GB of ram, as seen in the emulator tutorial video)-
when they own a Sony Xperia Z, "phablet" (oversized phone) with a beautiful 1080 x 1920 pixels display 443 ppi.

With the free version of Genymotion you do not get pixel perfect 1:1 graphics in the emulation,
so I think anybody would prefer to use the Sony phone, given the choice.

Once again Da Grud you have presented a lot of wrong information, and some mixed up or made up information.

You can run touch macro bots on any device EVEN APPLE DEVICES, including the Ipad, iphone, android platform and all devices that run it.
The use of touch macros as bots, (aka scripts although no scripting is involved) was and is unrelated to the use of emulators because of this.
So Don't try to merge the two!

Even though you try to yell in caps that you are not poo pooing ronjambo, the wrong information you have provided makes it look like you are just trying to run a campaign to get the android emulator topic removed from the forum, in a final revenge attack towards ronjambo who posted the topic only to help more people to be able to play dungeon keeper.

This guild could just be another guild who's players do not want to come to the forum, doing nothing wrong.
Why would you use it as a campaign call to stop people from using an emulator?
the emulator allows people to play the game, people who just don't want to pay for or can not afford a ipad, tablet or smart phone.
Why try to take the game away from those people?

The android emulator and the name ronjambo do not belong in this topic.
If you want to talk about the issue of people using multiple accounts in conjunction with macros,
then I think this would be a more suitable turn for this topic.
Leave all the void information out of it.

Have a nice day.
Last edited by dave on Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Stand up & take a bow

Postby Kathyllvania » Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:35 pm

Ron, dude, you've gone full super villain now and it's kinda creepy. You're spending way too much time on a vendetta with a stranger on the forum of a phone game. It's fun for us to watch, but it's not good for your mental health, and what are you really getting out of it anyway?

You should seriously consider telling someone not involved that you bought and fixed five broken iPads so you could rig a game and hurt the feelings of some guy who wouldn't tell you the trophy level of the account he used to win in a phone game tournament. The look of confusion and incredulity I assume will appear on their face should tell you how out of hand this has got.

Full disclosure: I like grud and am in a guild with him - I am in no way beholden to or controlled by him though as you seem to assume. I'm saying this not to defend him, but because you're being nut balls and someone should probably point that out to you. This isn't some sort of epic battle - it's just some guy being weird on the internet as per usual.

Get some perspective guy. England are out of the World Cup, but Wimbledon's on now - maybe focus on that? Just cut the crazy out please, for your own sake.
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Re: Stand up & take a bow

Postby dave » Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:41 pm

No Kathyllvania, you have misread my post somehow...

Why on earth would I buy an ipad? They are crap! I was speaking metaphorically within those inverted comas.
Sorry for the confusion I may have caused you. I am not guilty of any of the things you assumed from this.

The arguments I presented here are valid, if you wish to call me crazy for them, rather than continue to debate either the guild from the OP -
or the issue of people using multiple accounts in conjunction with macro apps across all platforms, without including ronjambo, the topic about the genymotion emulator or the other topics on the forum about bluestacks and other emulators where just as much information is given.
All these things were being done long before "ronjambo" was ever written on these forums and before the emulator topic was posted.
It is not my fault.

dave.
Last edited by dave on Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stand up & take a bow

Postby Minotaar » Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:14 pm

Kathyllvania wrote:You're spending way too much time on a vendetta with a stranger on the forum of a phone game.


truth.
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