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UPCOMING CHANGES: Cave-Ins / Resource Plundering

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Re: UPCOMING CHANGES: Cave-Ins / Resource Plundering

Postby MWyatt_Mythic » Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:07 pm

trev186 wrote:I just feel like u guys are not listening. The resource rooms are easy to take. No one can defend all of them effectively. At level 10 with 8 of them you have to accept that one or two will fall. Just not enough room


Not a fair statement. If we weren't listening then we wouldn't be active on the forums and engaging the community. Fact of the matter is, we're not going to blindly implement every suggestion/demand from players of the game (yes, this also includes employees of Mythic). While we would like to make every person as happy as can be, it's not a realistic outcome. Making informed decisions is paramount to the longevity and health of the game as a whole.

That said, we are striving to make the game the best thing it can be while maintaining the integrity of the game's economy.

Also keep in mind that no dungeon is ever supposed to be 100% impenetrable. If that becomes a thing then we've got much bigger problems with the game. While defending, it's about mitigating losses as much as possible.

trev186 wrote:As opposed to a cave in I suggest the defender is credited the resources he did not lose. The attacker should also be extra incentivzed for killing the dungeon heart or breaking 50%. Make it worth blowing all their mana and minions in one go.


Additional incentive for players to push for the Dungeon Heart is something we're actively working on right now. We've definitely got some exciting things in the pipes that we'll let people know once we're ready to.

trev186 wrote:Additionally we need rewards for being in the top 100 lists of the PVP game. People who have no reason to compete for anything.


I wouldn't say there's no reason (personal and guild achievements, as an example) but, excluding those reasons, this is something I absolutely agree with you on and something we're working on right now.

trev186 wrote:Don't change how cave ins work. Spcbrass is right if we do that then it will be harder to match up. Plus on top of that people are still losing more than they can make. My problem isn't with people who can 40% my dungeon. Honestly most raiders either make it to 20-25% after they plundered one or two storehouses and then stop/give up or If they go for the kill and usually take the same amount as the guys who got 20-25%. The one's going for the kill bypass resource rooms and spear head the heart which in turn results in less resources unless their army survives


The Cave-In change is going in. I realize that the general player base doesn't have visibility into our game's statistics but I can definitely tell you that the average that most raiders make on an attack is greater than 20-25%.
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Re: UPCOMING CHANGES: Cave-Ins / Resource Plundering

Postby temnolord » Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:43 pm

Why to show the amount of gold and stone available in a dungeon being attacked. Let the plunder size be a surprise. :o
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Re: UPCOMING CHANGES: Cave-Ins / Resource Plundering

Postby Daemonizer » Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:05 pm

MWyatt_Mythic wrote:
Codex604 wrote:We should go back to hiding resources.


We're not doing this. It is borderline exploitative but we are interested in finding ways to allow players to further safeguard their resources via intended game mechanics.


It's easy to imagine a businessman proclaiming "that's not how I was told it would work" and this important feature magically becoming "not intended". When you decide to put this back it will once again be, as it was, "intended game mechanics".

As you "are interested in finding ways to allow players to further safeguard their resources" here's a suggestion for that businessman:

Resources applied to an upgrade are currently protected from raiders. Perhaps you could allow players to cancel an upgrade without penalty and recover the resources that were being used there. Players could use a few lesser-value upgrades to gather resources for higher-value upgrades. It ties up an Imp to do an Upgrade, so that limits the number of simultaneous upgrades that can be used this way and encourages players to buy more Imps.

Upgrades come in different "values" so it is rare that a player would be able to store all their resources in upgrades. Limited Imps and Values means some resources will be exposed for raiders.

However, to ensure players don't continually re-use some perfect combination of storage values (leaving these objects stagnant while upgrading other objects to high levels), the upgrading object could "remember" a portion of its completion, so the next time it is upgraded there will be less time on the clock. Perhaps the object could simply remember the real time that passed during the upgrade (not the Imp-slapping time that speeds progression). That would be easy for the game to calculate, and would allow an object to be used multiple times for temporary storage before the upgrade is completed. This also provides a small penalty for cancelling an upgrade, encouraging players to move forward, as they see their Imp-slapping time eroded from cancelling that upgrade.

While an object is being upgraded, it is more vulnerable to attack, so using defensive rooms (for example) as temporary storage provides another form of penalty to the player, thus discouraging dependency on saving.

This method might be referred to as squirreling resources in upgrades, and would provide an additional level of complexity in planning a defensive dungeon that many players will appreciate. It doesn't involve complicated formulas and it's easy to understand. It will allow players to enjoy progressing through the game and feel good about "hiding" resources from fellow Keepers.

Furthermore, it will encourage players to buy Gems for additional Imps and to hurry various upgrades and support the community.
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Re: UPCOMING CHANGES: Cave-Ins / Resource Plundering

Postby trev186 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:36 pm

Thanks for th response !!

To clarify on the not listening statement I meant that the reason attackers gain so many resources without granting cave ins is because they get so much from resource rooms.

My point being shifting more to the resource rooms seems like it would amplify the problem especially for higher level dungeons where we have 8 of those to defend. Making it easy for them to come in with half an army take out 1 or 2 plus a defending room and leave without them risking much at all.

I appreciate the efforts you guys are making !
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Re: UPCOMING CHANGES: Cave-Ins / Resource Plundering

Postby checkmate » Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:17 pm

MWyatt_Mythic wrote:
There are plenty of raids where players simply don't even achieve a 1-Star victory -- this would result in zero gain which is no better of a gameplay experience than losing a lot. This isn't something we're going to do given the nature of the game.



in current game system players have to deal 50% damage or heart break to get 1-star victory.

why not just change that 1 star percentage?
1star 50% to 33%
2star for 66%
And make only 1star can take resource.
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Re: UPCOMING CHANGES: Cave-Ins / Resource Plundering

Postby jiadelme » Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:09 pm

Why not stick to some simple changes instead of all these big, unrealistic ones?

Half the Plunder Amount, but make it so if Attacker gain one-star, he gains a bonus 50% Resources, if he gains 2 stars, 75% bonus resources, and finally, 100% bonus resources if 3 stars.

This way, defenders lose less, and attackers can potentially gain just as much.
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Re: UPCOMING CHANGES: Cave-Ins / Resource Plundering

Postby cold_hell » Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:13 pm

Would you care to comment on the imbalance that I mentioned in my post earlier?
Please and ty


cold_hell wrote:You are still not addressing the fact that plundered amount must depend upon the level of the dungeon plundering, NOT on the dungeon being plundered. I have all 4 mines open, 4 treasuries and 4 warehouses, and a level 10 heart. Why a dungeon with 2 treasuries, 2 warehouses, 2 mines and a low level heart be able to plunder more than half a mill from me and not return the favor to the rest?

Since you can't force people to open their mines, get them to have more treasuries and warehouses, upgrade their hearts, give them an incentive, rather penalize them, safety or resources, make em pick one!

^^ would apply to old players only, since new players would have to keep their dungeon balanced according to the new setup.
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Re: UPCOMING CHANGES: Cave-Ins / Resource Plundering

Postby tremble » Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:28 pm

cold_hell wrote:Would you care to comment on the imbalance that I mentioned in my post earlier?
Please and ty

cold_hell wrote:You are still not addressing the fact that plundered amount must depend upon the level of the dungeon plundering, NOT on the dungeon being plundered. I have all 4 mines open, 4 treasuries and 4 warehouses, and a level 10 heart. Why a dungeon with 2 treasuries, 2 warehouses, 2 mines and a low level heart be able to plunder more than half a mill from me and not return the favor to the rest?

Since you can't force people to open their mines, get them to have more treasuries and warehouses, upgrade their hearts, give them an incentive, rather penalize them, safety or resources, make em pick one!

^^ would apply to old players only, since new players would have to keep their dungeon balanced according to the new setup.



Seriously dude what's with the huge font? Its not going to get your point noticed any more than any other posts and is frankly just annoying!
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Re: UPCOMING CHANGES: Cave-Ins / Resource Plundering

Postby jiadelme » Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:40 pm

My 2 suggestions to fix Resources Plundering:

1. For each Gold Mine and Stone Quarry you own, the max amount of Plunderable Resource will be reduced by 10%, up to 4 GM/SQ for a total of 40% Reduction.

e.g If you have Level 10 Dungeon Heart and own 4 Gold Mines and 4 Stone Quarry, your Plunderable Resource Cap will be 420,000 instead of 700,000

Right now, too many players simply don't claim the last GM and stack all their precious resources there, this way, people will actually claim them.

2. Attacker gain bonus amount of Resources depending on the numbers of Stars they obtain. At 1-star, they gain an additional 33% Resources, at 2-stars, 66%, at 3-stars, 100%

So if the attacker is actually good, he can potentially gain more resources compare to pre-fix. e.g 840,000 vs 700,000
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Re: UPCOMING CHANGES: Cave-Ins / Resource Plundering

Postby last year's bun » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:58 am

cold_hell wrote: Super big font


I'm pretty sure using super big fonts just makes your post look more like spam and easier to ignore.

I hope the developers consider the stand point of players who chose not to claim all mines and quarries, not just the currently most vocal crowd of those who claimed all and realised it's a bad idea, then want to nerf everyone who did not claim as many as they did. Mines and quarries should be made worthwhile for those claimed, but not made to punish those who chose not to claim.
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