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5.0 To Introduce New Star Formula

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Re: 5.0 To Introduce New Star Formula

Postby Keithustus » Sun Feb 15, 2015 4:45 pm

hell hole keeper wrote:If a player using level 8 resources manages to break a level 10 heart, then his reward should not be penalized because he is playing above his league.

On the other side of the coin, a level 10 heart raiding level 8 dungeons should be penalized for playing below his league.
markuscookius wrote:Considering that most baby dungeons have a level 10 heart I don't think that this will make too much of a difference

That's why HEART should not be taken into consideration, whereas DCR (true DCR, not just limited to 29) should be used to calculate the bonuses. Get a nice big bonus for someone with a DCR at or higher than yours, and either no bonus or a negative bonus from attacking people lower than you.

pitofdespair wrote:I don't think any fixed star bonus system can perfectly balance between the different league/trophy/dh/dcr levels - there will always be a sweet spot that isn't at the highest ranks...

Excellent post and point. Note that there are other variables at work here. Not only are people attempting to win tournaments and get into Horney's Chosen, some people want to maximize gem winnings (1st-3rd place is best, by efficiency), some want to maximize dreadstone (25th-40th is best, by efficiency), while some want to win tournaments. Given that any algorithm of stars will be directed toward some goal, it will be inevitable that some other goals can become taken advantage of.
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Re: 5.0 To Introduce New Star Formula

Postby Ravenous » Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:50 pm

<removed>
Last edited by Ravenous on Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DH 11 / DCR 82 / trophy~5.8k / CP>2.8m / HB>8.6k / Plunder>12.1b
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Re: 5.0 To Introduce New Star Formula

Postby phloob69 » Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:24 pm

pitofdespair very well written post +1
EA please don't make me say good bye
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Re: 5.0 To Introduce New Star Formula

Postby Black Crag » Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:44 am

If you get a bonus for attacking above your DCR and a penalty for attacking below it, that would be a huge benefit for baby dungeons who have an artificially low DCR and can win against normal dungeons with the same or higher DCR with a single Immortal. Mature dungeons would have to attack others with maxed (or near maxed) rooms and traps just to avoid the penalty, and I don't know how others are doing it but in my experience that means using a full complement of minions and 300-500 mana for an uncertain 1-2 star victory.

I'm all for introducing a new star formula which rewards attacking bigger dungeons but if it is made relative to the attacking dungeon it will only discourage people from developing their own.

I'm curious to see what the developers have cooked up here and I think it should be tried and evaluated before any other changes are introduced. I suspect baby dungeons will still have an advantage in ungemmed (or low gem) star output per hour but if mature dungeons increase their output by 30% or so it would be huge improvement.
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Re: 5.0 To Introduce New Star Formula

Postby Grimgor » Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:56 am

Keithustus wrote:That's why HEART should not be taken into consideration, whereas DCR (true DCR, not just limited to 29) should be used to calculate the bonuses. Get a nice big bonus for someone with a DCR at or higher than yours, and either no bonus or a negative bonus from attacking people lower than you.


That still favor baby dungeons as they have a low DCR and a very powerful offense.

If it going to be based on DCR you should be reward for what your opponent DCR is. It should have nothing to do with your DCR because the higher your DCR is the harder opponents you are going to get. You shouldn't be penalize for building traps rooms etc.
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Re: 5.0 To Introduce New Star Formula

Postby Ravenous » Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:03 am

<removed>
Last edited by Ravenous on Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
List of Polls:Topic order Ascending Topic order Descending
DH 11 / DCR 82 / trophy~5.8k / CP>2.8m / HB>8.6k / Plunder>12.1b
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Re: 5.0 To Introduce New Star Formula

Postby hell hole keeper » Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:05 am

The current system is a bust. Anyone playing the game can clearly see that. A change to the scoring system pretty much has to improve it because it is as bad as it can possibly be. The new system described is the first step to returning the focus of the game to dungeon building and strategic gaming. When a new player joins a guild and asks how to do better the answer will be to level up their dungeon and raid strategically rather than to dump their dungeon and create a new one with a totally different set of objectives.
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Re: 5.0 To Introduce New Star Formula

Postby Blutbader » Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:12 am

Baby Dungeons = Doping
If you have a baby dungeon, you have a big advance against an experianced dungeon.
So you have to level down your dungeon or create a new one.
If you don't do it, you'll loose.


It's still not fair...
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Re: 5.0 To Introduce New Star Formula

Postby purgatoria » Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:47 am

hell hole keeper wrote:The current system is a bust. Anyone playing the game can clearly see that. A change to the scoring system pretty much has to improve it because it is as bad as it can possibly be. The new system described is the first step to returning the focus of the game to dungeon building and strategic gaming. When a new player joins a guild and asks how to do better the answer will be to level up their dungeon and raid strategically rather than to dump their dungeon and create a new one with a totally different set of objectives.

As bad as it maybe, there is always a way things can go spectacularly worse....
At least this dose sound like a step in the right direction. Id be more comfortable saying it looks good if they provided the new equation rather than an ambiguous
DKdev_chris wrote:"hey yeah we heard what you guys were saying and we think we have tweaked it to include stuff about the othe dungeon n stuff"

I saw no mention of incorporating the opposing dcr, only dh and loe. So....
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Re: 5.0 To Introduce New Star Formula

Postby pitofdespair » Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:27 am

Ravenous wrote:The trouble is, as far as the game is concerned, whats the difference between an old pro starting a new dungeon and a beginner that just walked in


I think you're right. Essentially, if you want a game that uses this ranking system, you need to make the rewards high enough at the high end that people don't voluntarily want to go lower than they can. Apparently that is not currently the case. ( There may inevitably be people that will go lower just so they can say they've won a tourney - you'd just like it to be such that you'd only do it for fun once or twice and then go back to daddy.) I'm a little surprised that people are so focused on babies - it seems a long run dead end to me, since you can only accumulate so much before you dead end, but maybe I'm underestimating the room there. Anyways, if sandbagging gets solved then babies should follow, I think, since the whole idea of babies is to get lots of wins.

Maybe what is really needed is something less economically oriented.

As I see it, the underlying problem is that high rank people don't have enough to do that they find rewarding, so they ditch to babies so they can win tourneys. (I'm assuming that dreadstones aren't so rare that it's worth starting over just to get them a bit quicker, followed by ranking up again - though some ppl seem to think so.) Extending achievements would be a good move I think. Also, an expanded leaderboard, where people can compete on more fronts (and I've requested before leaderboards within guilds too). Also, badges beside your name, in-game, showing your achievements/leaderboard statuses could add a big prestige element that trophies as a number just don't have. Also, some benefits that can only be kept if you have certain trophy levels - loot bonus and star bonus are a good start but more could be had. Clearly trophy status has lost interest for people that have switched to babies, so thinking of something else Is needed. .

I can think of ides on the punitive side that could be unpopular but would punish intentional trophy dropping: having a streak of losses lose you stars in a tourney; having cool downs of maybe 10-15 minutes on raiding if you lose, where the length of cool down reduces proportional to the % win you had (ppl who were really trying will need to summon minions anyways, so it won't punish them much if at all); having cool downs or star penalties if you start a raid but end it early without a win and without at least half of your potential minion room space deployed (effectively forcing you to summon and deploy half of your minions each raid); disabling/lowering building effectiveness based on your trophy count relative to where you "should" be in rank to have that building; reducing minion "motivation" (I.e. effective level) after a loss/loss streak/at lower trophy rank; etc., etc. there are lots of options, I think. The goal being to not interrupt regular-paced raiding, but to slow down/punish ppl who clearly lose intentionally.

Some smart targeting of specifically sandbagging behaviours could make it sufficiently unappealing that ppl would avoid it, and seek out other (new, appealing) goals, while not really punishing genuinely lower players. i think the problem could be largely solved without having to do a lot of star/economic changes, though those could be beneficial as well.
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